Interview conducted by Josh Horowitz
April 2, 2004
If you thought the career of an actor was tenuous, reliant on the fickle tastes of the public, then try being a screenwriter. Names like Joe Eszterhas and Shane Black have breezed in and out of fashion in Hollywood. By this history and his own admission, David Koepp is due for a dry spell.
Since 1988, Koepp has penned some of the biggest blockbusters of our time including JURASSIC PARK, THE LOST WORLD, MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE, and SPIDER-MAN. It’s got to be nice to have ongoing collaborations established with guys like Spielberg and DePalma. The next writing assignment for Koepp promises to be another behemoth, WAR OF THE WORLDS starring Tom Cruise and directed by Spielberg. My crystal ball tells me this one might do alright.
Screenwriting may have paid the bills for Koepp but he realizes it is his directing career that could ensure him longevity in this business. His first two efforts were solid thrillers (THE TRIGGER EFFECT and STIR OF ECHOES) and his third follows the pattern. SECRET WINDOW is adapted from a Stephen King short story. It stars Johnny Depp as Mort Rainey, a frustrated writer whose life is coming apart thanks to a failed marriage and an apparent stalker named Shooter (John Turturro).
I spoke with Koepp recently by phone about his latest work and his propensity for scaring the hell out of me in his directing projects.
Josh Horowitz: I saw the movie the other night and I’d like to thank you again for making me look like a little girl at your movies.
David Koepp: You were a little jumpy?
JH: Just a bit when I didn’t have my hand in front of my face. Not surprisingly since it’s Stephen King, the story has that SHINING quality to it, a writer in a house going stir crazy. Any parallels to your own experiences as a writer holed up?
DK: Yeah. The thing is, being alone is really good for you as a writer. It’s what you need. You need to concentrate and you need to be isolated. But then too much of it is not so good. Now most of us have somebody in our lives who’s going to come along and say, “Hey, time to go out now. You’re getting a little weird.” Mort doesn’t so things go a little further than perhaps they should.
JH: Was there any sort of strange self reflexive sensation as a writer sitting down by himself to write a story about a writer? It’s a little bit different than writing SPIDER-MAN.
DK: Yeah. Usually I don’t like writer stories because they are too self-referential. But in this case since it was a writer who can’t write so I thought it was ok. Writing is a pretty boring activity to watch. I could certainly bring some authenticity to it, like the Slinky [in the film]. That’s off my desk. In fact I’m looking at it right now.
JH: So much of the movie is spent alone with Johnny in that house. That has to be a challenge as a director and a screenwriter to keep the story interesting.
DK: Sure. Absolutely. Because so much of the movie is him by himself and he’s not doing things. He’s not eating his sandwich. That’s a big scene. You really need an actor who is compelling and so if you can get Johnny Depp, I think you can make the movie. You need somebody who’s going to make enough idiosyncratic choices to be continually interesting and really hold the screen during levels of inactivity that are not normally considered entertaining.
JH: This movie has a lot riding on the ending. In the film it’s even said explicitly how important endings are. Were you nervous about how much stock you were putting into your ending?
DK: Absolutely, because when you say that shit, the audience is now saying, “alright, you better come through, big talker!” I realized that was making it even harder for us on our ending. I liked our ending so much that I thought it was going to work.
JH: You have some risky third act twists wherein the loyalties the audience has to certain characters are questioned.
DK: You could also call this movie a psychological thriller and in that kind of movie you’re asked to empathize completely with the character in the beginning and then they’re put under increasing levels of duress. At the beginning, you go, oh that’s like me, I’d do that. Then as the movie goes on and the pressure becomes greater they start to things where you’re like, well I don’t know if I’d do that. And it becomes cathartic because you get to watch somebody who you identify with go off in directions that you wouldn’t so I think that’s fun. Now…I don’t know. They could also rebel. So I don’t know. I hope it works.
JH: What’s your favorite ending in a film?
DK: Well, my favorite movie is ROSEMARY’S BABY and I think that certainly has a great ending. It takes us into a direction or realm we weren’t expecting. I tend to like movies that are like Roy Orbison songs, you know how they start small and they sort of snowball and get louder and louder and then just cut off. That’s what I was trying to do with this. I also thought of the ending of SEVEN. My friend Andy Walker wrote it. I remember when they were developing it; his original ending was the ending you see in the movie. But of course Gwyneth Paltrow’s head in a box is not the way any studio would want the movie to end. So it went through all these permutations where they changed it and none of it ever worked because this was the right ending. This was the perfect ending. So they shot it and the audience liked it. And I think the audience liked it was because it felt complete. They don’t necessarily want a happy ending. They want an ending that makes sense. That’s what people want, a sense of completion.
JH: There is a surprising amount of humor in the film. Was that in the King story? Does that just come naturally from someone like Johnny?
DK: There was some humor in the story. I put more in the script. You can’t sustain suspense for 100 minutes. It gets uncomfortable. And then when Johnny is so naturally funny, as a director you’re a fool if you don’t use it.
JH: How did Johnny get cast?
DK: I begged him. (LAUGHS)
JH: What were your begging methods?
DK: You know, make the offer, write a letter, beseech his representatives, and then when he finally read it, I went and met with him and explained why this movie and no other was the thing he should do. He read it and he saw the part and like most good actors the conversation is either over or just beginning at that point. They’re either going to do it or they’re not because they see it. He saw it so we got lucky.
JH: At the time, before PIRATES OF THE CARRIBEAN was released, Johnny wasn’t considered the bankable guy he is now. Did the studio have any concerns?
DK: Yes and then thankfully that all went away when PIRATES opened. It opened the week we started shooting so it took some pressure off.
JH: Did you miraculously get a little cash infusion then thanks to his newfound bankability?
DK: Oh hell no. There they smelled a profit. It just took some pressure off because then they weren’t worried anymore about whether he was somebody who could open a movie.
JH: Were you always shooting for a PG-13 for the film?
DK: I was shooting for an R. The studio was shooting for a PG-13. Guess who won? (LAUGHS) It wasn’t much different. There were a couple shots and some sound effects that I had to turn down. I certainly would have made a huge stink if I thought it was seriously effecting the movie.
JH: Stephen King has had varying degrees of involvement in that adaptations of his stories. What was his level of involvement in this?
DK: He reads the scripts and then gives you his opinions and you can take them or not. It’s up to you. He wants you to make your own movie. And then he has approval over casting. He knows that the book is the book and the movie is the movie. And in order for it to be a good movie, it’s got to be an interpretation of the book rather than just a recording of it.
JH: Having been down this road before adapting a story from a famous author, i.e. Michael Crichton with JURASSIC PARK, do you now know the pitfalls by now?
DK: Well, they’re not going to like it is the thing. They’re just not. It going to be different and therefore wrong. It’s the same way I don’t like most of the movies that get made from my scripts. I come to like them but they’re different. The pitfall is they’re not going to like you and that’s OK. They can’t hurt you so that’s ok.
JH: What’s the best directing knowledge you’ve picked up on the productions you’ve been a part of?
DK: In terms of suspense the important thing I learned, primarily from DePalma and also from Spielberg, is the importance of geography. You need to be able to be wide enough to see where everybody is before anything will work. There’s a tendency in modern filmmaking to get close and cutty and those guys would stay wide and it’s just much more effective. In my own experience particularly with this movie is that the real key to directing is allocation of resources. That’s the whole job, the primary resource being time. How much time are you going to allow this and when is it going impinge on that. And what’s more important, this or that? In the past I would be in a lot of meetings I didn’t need to be in. And then that takes you away from something else. You need to let other people do their jobs. You give some guidance and then you go.
JH: Does directing come as naturally to you as screenwriting? Is it a different set of muscles than screenwriting?
DK: I think it’s all different. I don’t feel comfortable with either one. I feel uncomfortable with both because you’re never done and you’re never making all the right decisions and you’re never as good as you could be. The thing about directing is it’s so much more management, so much more people stuff. My God! The great thing about writing is you go in your room and you close the door.
JH: I’m a big fan of THE TRIGGER EFFECT. What do you see when you watch that film today?
DK: I bemoan the lost opportunities. I look at it and think about what I would have done differently.
JH: You began that film with a long tracking shot and also have one here in the opening credit sequence. I think of DePalma of course when I see shots like that. Are you generally a fan of long tracking shots?
DK: I think it all depends on when you do it. In this movie, my position was the first two thirds of the movie is for the actors, the last third is mine. I think you’re supposed to underline things. You’re not supposed to say, “look at me.” I wouldn’t have done that opening shot if I hadn’t put credits over it because I think that takes some of the precociousness off of it.
JH: You’ve been so prolific and successful as a screenwriter. Do you ever worry about going out of fashion in Hollywood?
DK: Not only do I worry about it, I am dead certain of its eventuality. Of course I’ll go out of fashion. I’m 40 which is getting old for a screenwriter. Believe me, it’ll happen.
JH: Do you feel typecast, almost like an actor would, by all these blockbusters you’ve done?
DK: Yeah but that’s OK. That’s why you write on spec. You shouldn’t expect Hollywood to come along and say, “we want you to stretch.” So I try to write every second or third one on spec. That’s a way to either go in a direction someone wouldn’t ordinarily think of you for or to break out of your pigeon hole or to reinforce your pigeon hole.
JH: Have you let go of any of your animosity for THE SIXTH SENSE which probably stole some of STIR OF ECHOES’ thunder?
DK: No.
JH: Still just a raw wound?
DK: Still haven’t seen it. It was playing on an airplane I was on once so I put a baseball cap on and pulled the brim down low and I wouldn’t accidentally see some of it.
SECRET WINDOW is out in theaters.
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