March 10, 2005
Way More Than a Snowball's Chance in Hell: The George Romero of Poopshoot, Chance Shirley, returns to his old online stomping grounds to chew the fat with Josh Jabcuga about the progress of HIDE AND CREEP along with the blood, sweat, tears, and more blood behind getting an indie zombie film distributed.
Josh Jabcuga, Squib Central @ Moviepoopshoot.com: So Chance, how you doing, man? Is this your first official
interview since filming ended on HIDE AND CREEP?
Chance Shirley, writer/co director of HIDE AND CREEP, www.HideandCreep.com, "This Movie Ain't Gonna Shoot Itself" @ Moviepoopshoot.com: I'm doing well, thanks for asking. I'm a little sleepy, actually, as I was up late last night working on some HIDE AND CREEP promotional stuff --cutting out DVD covers, pasting postcards to folders, glamorous movie stuff like that.
This is the first interview I've done since we got the "festival" cut of the movie finished back in September -- the day before the world premiere.
Some other Birmingham filmmakers and I did do an interview with my pal Carol who writes for DRINKATWORK.COM a couple of days after the premiere, but that one hasn't seen the light of day yet -- she's probably still trying to transcribe the tapes and make some sense of all the mumbling and profanity.
Josh Jabcuga: Shit, so what you're saying is I'm getting sloppy seconds? Seriously, though, thanks to your indispensable run of columns on the site chronicling the making of your film, HIDE AND CREEP, we all have a decent grasp of how much blood, sweat, and tears went into its production. But it sounds like the fun has just begun. Is the marketing and the plain ol' "getting the word out" going to be the most difficult part yet?
Chance Shirley: If the "This Movie Ain't Gonna Shoot Itself" columns gave you an idea of
how difficult it is to make a feature film, then I guess it has served at least part of its purpose. Because it is difficult. I honestly think making a feature is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. Of course, as time goes on, I forget the tough parts and think, "I can't wait to make another feature!"
As for marketing and stuff, it's tough simply because I'm not sure what I'm doing. I'd made short movies before, and what I learned from those really helped out with HIDE AND CREEP. But I've never really tried to sell a movie before, so...hey, my other line won't stop ringing, I should probably take this. Let me call you right back, OK?
Josh Jabcuga: Sure, no sweat, take your time, you know where to reach me.
Phone Rings
Josh Jabcuga: Hello?
Chance Shirley:Hey Josh. Okay. That was weird. I just had to step away to handle phone calls for a couple of hours because co-director Chuck called to let me know a distributor is interested in picking up HIDE AND CREEP for a home video release. Which kicked off a few more phone calls, mostly me calling people and asking them what the hell we're supposed to do now.
The acquisitions guy that called apparently really liked the movie and thinks he can sell it as a SHAUN OF THE DEAD-type horror/comedy. I think he's right, but we'll have to wait and see.
Getting back to the original question, "Is the marketing... going to be the most difficult part yet?" Could you ask me that one again in a couple of months? If this deal ends up going through (reality check -- it's very likely it won't), I might be able to answer it better.
Josh Jabcuga: Man, that's friggin' awesome! So obviously your film is out there, making the rounds. Apparently you must be doing something right with the marketing of this thing if people are dialing you up. So tell me, somebody calls you up and says they're interested in HIDE AND CREEP, maybe purchasing the rights or whatever for distribution. Is there
good protocol? I guess you could just tell me what you did after you received that phone call today. Who'd you call for advice, and what'd you learn? Oh, and Chance, I can totally see this thing being sold as an American SHAUN OF THE DEAD. Distributors would be nuts not to go with that angle considering the success of SHAUN.
Chance Shirley: Yeah, I've actually been sending to more distributors and sales agents (folks who broker deals between filmmakers and distributors) than festivals. I hope to rectify that soon -- lots of horror and "genre" fests are starting to accept applications for autumn '05, so I'll be sending stuff out in an attempt to get HIDE AND CREEP in front of some festival audiences. Keep in mind the ratio of phone calls to the number of screeners sent out is pretty low. And like many things in life (and filmmaking), there's some luck involved -- the DVD has to get to the right person, and he/she has to find the time to watch it and be in the mood for some zombie silliness.
As far as protocol, we're officially flying blind at this point, so I'm not really sure. After the distributor called, I called local film fest guru Erik Jambor and asked him what he recommended. He suggested I call our mutual friend Mike Grady, who used to work at Dimension Films. I did, and Mike was pretty excited. Being he's a serious industry guy,
his excitement got me excited. He recommended a couple of entertainment lawyers I could call, to help us deal with whatever legal stuff might come up if we sell the movie, as well as a sales agent who he thought might help us out if this particular deal falls through. I haven't learned a lot yet, but I hope to in the next few weeks. I'm sure from
here on out, things will happen in fits and starts. A couple of months of nothing, then a few crazy days, then back to a slow period.
I agree about the SHAUN angle for selling HIDE AND CREEP. Not that I want to cash in on someone else's success, but the businessman in me sees that as the obvious angle for selling our movie. Well, either that or "It's CLERKS meets NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD!" I think HIDE AND CREEP has its own vibe, but those are the obvious movies to compare it with. Simply because of the humor, the zombies and the fact that HIDE AND CREEP is one of those "credit card" movies.
As for SHAUN, I started reading about it when we were about half done with HIDE AND CREEP, and I thought "Damn it! Those Brits are going to beat us to the punch!" Then I got to see a sneak of SHAUN at Comic-Con 04, and I fell completely in love with it. I really think it's the best zombie flick since DAY OF THE DEAD. In some ways, SHAUN and HIDE AND CREEP are drastically different, but I do think they share a similar spirit. I'd really love to get a copy of HIDE AND CREEP to Edgar Wright and Simon Pegg and see what they think of it. I wonder if they'd enjoy the small-town America humor in our movie as much as I dig the English humor of SHAUN.
 |
Josh Jabcuga: The other day when you and I were shootin' the breeze, I mentioned Vincent Gallo's BUFFALO '66. Obviously, I'm a Buffalonian, and in my opinion the film pretty much nailed the whole experience of living in this town. And while BUFFALO '66 is very much a flawed film, it's that type of film I enjoy, the kind where, for two-and-a-half hours or whatever, you're sort of transported to another place or time, like looking at a snapshot, a postcard, or even digging through a time capsule.
That's exactly the kind of vibe I got while watching HIDE AND CREEP. Sure, it's horror and comedy and not quote-unquote a Merchant Ivory-type drama, but I got that sense that I was getting a snapshot of your hometown, and it seemed so honest and accurate in the way it was depicted. Now, granted, I've never been there, so you could be pulling a fast one on me, but the writing and the cast brought so much, pardon the pun, flesh and blood to the film, that I just totally bought into the whole experience. That, in turn, added to the elements of fear, because it seemed pretty real.
Like you said to me the other day, you can't eliminate all stereotypes, because some times, people like the gun-toting right-winger do exist, but you had a way of...how would I say it...not portraying it on a satirical level, but still making it funny and realistic. Or maybe it was satirical, but it was just so well done it didn't seem over-the-top.
How did you go about capturing the essence of your town, and manage to balance the satire without losing the real details that make the place go 'round?
Chance Shirley: I'm really glad you picked up on that sense of place -- not a lot of people mention that, but it is something I put some thought into.
The funny thing is the movie isn't so much about Thorsby, Alabama, as it exists now, but the way I remember it from 15 years ago, when I was in high school. I actually live in Birmingham now, which is a medium-sized city, and when I started writing the script I hadn't been to Thorsby in a while. When I got the script done and went to Thorsby to scout shooting locations, I realized it was even smaller than I remembered. So most of the scenes were shot in other towns, but I tried to find locations that had that
"classic Thorsby vibe."
As for the characters, I mainly tried to make them fun, but lots of the characters had roots in reality. "Barbara," the female lead, is like a lot of girls I went to high school with -- pretty, a bit bossy, and smart enough to do well in college but not motivated enough to leave her hometown. One of the characters is obsessed with his car, something that
could be said for a few of my friends in high school.
Another character leaves his young daughter at home alone during a zombie
apocalypse, and some people complained this made the father character unsympathetic. But lots of kids in small towns take on grown-up responsibilities at an early age, so I didn't see him as a bad parent. He'd raised his daughter well and trusted her to do the right thing, even at 13.
You questioned whether or not the movie is satirical. I think it is to a degree -- DR. STRANGELOVE was a big influence on the HIDE AND CREEP script. But we tried to keep our main characters from acting over-the-top. I think throwing in an absurd threat, zombies in this case, is over-the-top enough. At that point, I don't see a need for our protagonists to be acting all wacky.
I might be over-analyzing all this. Like you said, HIDE AND CREEP ain't Merchant Ivory. If people recognize bits of truth in the movie's setting and characters, that's great. But if they're laughing when they watch the movie, that's even better.
Josh Jabcuga: And what kind of response have you gotten from your hometown and the
locals? Furthermore, how'd your parents react when they saw it?
Chance Shirley: So far, there's really just been the one public screening, which was the world premiere. About 700 people were there, and they seemed to enjoy the movie, but I obviously couldn't talk to them all individually. No one threw any rotten tomatoes at the screen or anything, so that's probably a good sign.
I've gotten the feeling word-of-mouth is pretty good locally from some little things that have happened. Like when co-director and actor Chuck Hartsell was renting a video at Blockbuster and one of the guys working the counter asked him "Hey... weren't you in that HIDE AND CREEP movie?" Chuck told the guy he was, to which the Blockbuster employee replied "Cool."
Hopefully, we can get the movie into some local stores on DVD at some point, and more local folks will see the movie and be kind enough to let us know what they think of it.
As for my parents, they've been incredibly supportive of us the whole time. We spent several days shooting in the woods behind their house and a couple of hours actually shooting in their house. Anytime we were around, Mom would make it a point to bring us drinks and snacks. Heck, before we started shooting, she drove us around one day scouting locations.
I was a little worried about them actually seeing the movie. HIDE AND CREEP has a few scenes which are... risque, and, even though my parents and I are very close, we don't necessarily share the same sense of humor.
Anyway, I ended up worrying over nothing, because they came to the premiere and really enjoyed it. In fact, they're probably two of the movie's biggest fans. Mom has a screener copy of it, and she's always lending it out to her friends. She got one of my uncles a DVD player for his birthday, just so he could watch HIDE AND CREEP. I mean, he'll use it for other stuff, but Mom REALLY wanted him to see HIDE AND CREEP.
Josh Jabcuga: I know the movie isn't for sale yet, and ultimately, you're hoping to pick up a distributor. I suppose it's tough to get fans to rally behind a product if they haven't seen it, so what are your options in a scenario like this? Do you just keep submitting to festivals and reviewers and hope the positive word-of-mouth keeps spreading like wildfire, and the distributors and studios are listening?
Chance Shirley: Yeah, I hate hyping a movie that people can't really see yet, but it's kind of a necessary evil. Promoting a movie can be frustrating, because journalists often have the attitude "Why should we write about this? It's not playing anywhere." Then festivals will say "Why should we show this movie? There's no 'buzz.'" And, of course, distributors and studios are at the top of the food chain, looking for a flick with
festival awards and good press. Of course, I don't blame any of these guys. It makes sense to post an early review of a new Tom Cruise movie, because you know it'll make it to theaters at some point. With an indie film, you never know if it'll be the next NAPOLEON DYNAMITE or if it'll disappear into obscurity.
So thank goodness for the Internet. So far, we've had great luck getting reviews from horror and cult film web sites, even though HIDE AND CREEP has only been seen by a handful of people. It got started with my column on the SHOOT, and CHUD.COM and DREADCENTRAL.COM were nice enough to post a couple of news items about the movie before it was even done. Those sites also gave us some early reviews of the finished movie, and there's a cumulative effect -- every review we get seems to make other critics a little more interested in reviewing the movie. If we can get enough press, maybe the film festivals will start to show an interest in HIDE AND CREEP.
The only downside is that I've had people e-mail me wanting to buy the movie, and I have to tell them it's not yet available. There's nothing I hate more than having an audience and no product! If there are people out there who are interested in the movie, I hope they'll remember us whenever we finally do get the movie released. If I could have put the thing in stores the day after the premiere, I would have.
Josh Jabcuga: And by not making the film available for sale right now and selling it straight from your website, and in the process circumventing the middleman distributor, you're risking losing out on the bigger picture, so to speak, in the long run, right?
Chance Shirley: Well, not really. We might be missing out on some short-term sales, but a good distributor would be able to get the movie into places we wouldn't be able to on our own. As much as I'd like folks to purchase the movie and place it on their shelf between their Harry Potter movies and HIGH FIDELITY, I mainly just want people to see it. If a distributor can get the movie into Blockbuster, Movie Gallery, and/or on Netflix.com, I think that accessibility would be worth much more than whatever cut the distributor takes of the profits.
Josh Jabcuga: For the record, I've seen the film, and I've already mentioned to you how much I enjoyed it, and others on the web have praised it, including Chris Ryall and I’m not certain, but I believe Chris Gore at FilmThreat.com... that studios and money can't buy or manufacture.
Chance Shirley: Actually, it's Eric Campos at FILMTHREAT.COM who's turned into one of the champions of our film. I met him after the premiere at Sidewalk, and he told me he'd watched a screener of HIDE AND CREEP twice, so the premiere was the third time he saw it. That really blew me away. Then, at the beginning of the year, HIDE AND CREEP ended up on FILMTHREAT's list of five "movies to watch out for in 2005," and I was blown away again.
I'm also really glad you and Ryall enjoyed the movie. I know you guys see a lot of stuff, and hearing you praise HIDE AND CREEP means a lot. It is totally a low-budget movie, but we tried not to let the budget get in the way of making an entertaining movie. I'm a big fan of old "B" movies, stuff like EARTH VS. THE FLYING SAUCERS and THEM. To me, those movies are more fun than many of the big-budget flicks that come out
these days. I think PIRATES OF THE CARRIBEAN was entertaining because,
even though it was an expensive movie, it managed to capture that "B" movie spirit.
Josh Jabcuga: To be honest, with all the shitty "straight-to-video" releases that are out there, and considering that A.) this is a zombie flick, B.) horror movies are always hot, especially now... I mean, who the hell in their right mind wouldn't pay to see a good zombie flick?
Chance Shirley: From the industry feedback I've received, I don't think there's one single thing holding it back. A distributor told me the production values weren't high enough for them to release it. Fair enough -- we've established it's a low-budget affair. A couple of sales agents told me the movie wasn't scary. Also a fair statement. I think one thing the
SHAUN OF THE DEAD guys did better than us was to inject some nice bits of straight horror into their flick, whereas HIDE AND CREEP ended up as much more of a comedy with a few gory bits.
I hope the movie is funny, but comedy is very subjective. So is true horror. But if you've got good special effects and characters getting graphically dismembered every few minutes, that's something you can easily quantify.
Of course, the distributor we heard from a little while ago really enjoyed the movie and thinks he can do something with it. And you brought up a good point about zombie flicks being "in" at the moment…can't wait for that new Romero flick! So I hope you're right, and the movie will get picked up at some point on down the road.
Josh Jabcuga: That's interesting that you mention comedy and horror being subjective, which is so true, and so many people inherently understand that notion, but I don't think the casual filmgoer would be able to word it like that. When the casual filmgoer dislikes a comedy, you hear them say something like, "All the funny parts were in the trailer, so don't waste your time," or with horror films they don't find scary they say something like, "It was cheesy, it was weak, it was so lame it was funny."
But that was what I thought was one of the strongest aspects about HIDE AND CREEP, and this goes back to earlier in the conversation about BUFFALO '66, and even our conversation the other day, about how if you capture a small town in Alabama, people living in a small town, say, right outside of Buffalo, will be able to identify with it. And that's what made HIDE AND CREEP humorous and scary for me: I bought into the characters and I bought into the place. I could identify with aspects of the film, which makes it easier to suspend disbelief, and obviously it makes it easier to laugh at the right spots in the film. For example, one of the characters, and I won't say which one, reminded me of my eldest brother, who I refer to as the Rambo of our family, another one of the characters reminded me of my buddy Steve who is somewhere in or around Iraq right now. And the town reminded me of the suburb that I live in.
These are very subtle techniques at play here that you, your co director, and your spot-on cast, were able to deliver, and it's very elusive to many quote-unquote seasoned Hollywood writers and directors. Actually, you know what else HIDE AND CREEP reminded me of, and who did the same thing very well? BOTTLE ROCKET, which was Wes Anderson and the Wilson brothers' debut. Are there any writers or directors that you think capture this same thing, or whose work you used as a template?
Chance Shirley: Not many people have accused us of being subtle, but I'll take that as a great compliment. As for other movies that influenced HIDE AND CREEP, the main one was DR. STRANGELOVE, which is not necessarily obvious in the plot or anything. I did try to give HIDE AND CREEP a similar type of dry, sometimes dark humor, and the structure of the movies is similar in some ways, with both featuring three or four separate stories going on that are kind of interwoven by the end.
As for Wes Anderson's movies, I think they're all great and you're right about him developing a strong sense of "place" in his movies. His films all have settings that are like real places...a prep school, New York City, but they all have a unique Anderson spin on them that makes them even more engrossing.
I'm also a big fan of the Coen brothers. RAISING ARIZONA has an amazing setting -- you really feel what it would be like to live and work with those characters. MILLER'S CROSSING is a period piece, but it's like this twisted Coen version of some mob-run city in the prohibition times. Again, the setting is exceptionally well realized by the crew and cast. Even in THE BIG LEBOWSKI, which is set in the early 1990s, the Coens develop strong settings, with the big Lebowski's house and the bowling alley, and all the references in dialogue to the first Gulf War.
I'm glad we started talking about this idea of a movie's "sense of place." I'm going to have to pay close attention to that when I start writing another script.
Josh Jabcuga: No, man, don't let me jinx you. Trust me, you've already got that technique of establishing "sense of place" down perfectly. But yeah, old school Coen brothers, what's not to love? They've got that "sense of place" and it's like a ripple effect that simply oozes into the pours of their characters, and their dialogue, and so on.
Chance Shirley: HIDE AND CREEP is really the first thing I've written since I've "grown up." I think if you write good characters and cast good actors to play those characters, the specific dialogue in the script isn't that important. If it works, fine, and if it doesn't, a good actor will come up with a good way to say it if you give him or her a chance. Now I look at the scripted dialogue as just a rough sketch to give the actor some place to start from.
Josh Jabcuga: Well, I suppose we should wrap things up about now. I really appreciate you taking the time for this interview, man. Just a few things in closing...are you heading to the Con in San Diego this year to promote HIDE AND CREEP? And are we finally going to cross paths? The unstoppable force versus the immovable object...I know last year we were both there but missed running into each other by just a couple of minutes. You buying the first round of pops?
Chance Shirley: Thanks for taking the time to ask some good questions -- this interview
has been a blast. I'm definitely planning to attend Comic Con this year. They have a series of film screenings, so maybe I can get them to show HIDE AND CREEP -- we'll see. Regardless, the first round of pops are on me.
Praise for the writing of Josh Jabcuga, who pens Squib Central with ink made from his own blood, published every Thursday, exclusively at www.moviepoopshoot.com:
“Josh Jabcuga can take the 26 measly letters of our crude alphabet and capture the bi-polar soul of all that is classically yet disturbingly American. Then, when his typewriter is left to cool, he can turn right around…completely ready to trounce any drunk punk that’s got me backed into a corner.” –The Colonel J.D. Wilkes of The Legendary Shack*Shakers.
Press kits, promos, items for consideration to be reviewed in Squib Central should be sent to:
Josh Jabcuga
3910 Sharondale Dr.
Hamburg, NY 14075
E-MAIL THE AUTHOR |
ARCHIVES
